Thoughts about Umbraco as a modular CMS
Published on 05. April 2009 inUmbraco is the friendly CMS. At least when you are a developer or an editor. It's just one of those things that grow on you when you get into the mindset of using the ultra flexible framework that it is. Still, once in a while, a new user comes by and can not understand why it is so hard to create a site using the existing packages. That makes me wonder. Because as time goes by, the new users seem to warm up to the concepts.
When I have been in positions where I recommended Umbraco to companies, they always ask if there are a lot of plugins/addons/modules (take your pick), and I have always answered that Umbraco is not as such a modular CMS. Not because it is not possible, but because it is often really fast to build the functionality that you want, instead of installing a module that might not fit your needs 100%, and then spend time trying to squeeze your ideas into that module.
With V4 of Umbraco a lot of effort has been but into making it easier for the new users by giving them the Runway site that supports Modules. This is cool, and probably will get some to hang in a bit longer than otherwise, which again gives them time to warm up to the concepts of Umbraco. But I am wondering if plug'n'play modules on a larger scale would be the way to go?
The upside would probably be a wider adaption in small site installations, and maybe a more active marketplace for commercial modules through the package repo. But is it the right way to go?
Personally I hope that Umbraco remains on the current balance between flexibility and availability of modules. I like the concept of starter sites which gives a great foundation on a blank Umbraco install. But I am not a big fan of packages that hook directly into the existing site. I do love the packages that simply supply some new functionality, that you then have to spend a little time configuring, which in turn gives you lots of control.
So the question remains: How much of an Umbraco enthusiast should you need to be, in order to be able to extend your site with existing packages?
I do not have the answer to that, but I am really looking forward do discussing this and much more at the Core/MVP retreat and Codegarden in June. See you all there!
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On 05. April 2009 by Hendy
Hi Morten,
I can recall the inital confusion being confronted with an empty Umbraco install for the first time, but as you say the likes of Runway and CWS2 are great examples to learn from.
Saying that I'm still reluctant to use either as the foundation for a new project, prefering instead to start from scratch using my choice of naming conventions - so I'd also agree that ideally packages for Umbraco should be self contained.
(Reading your previous post about Umbraco membership - I've been thinking about a package that automatically builds registration forms using the properties of a given Member Type as the additional fields - with configuration detailing which fields to use)
On 15. April 2009 by Peter
Hi Morten,
From my point of view, more time spent on decent documentation would be a great investment in the project by the owners.
I have just finished developing a whole new admin section for maintaining a football competition site. I did truck loads of searching through the forums and the source code, gleaning little bits of information at a time on how to do things. It probably took me a lot longer than if decent documentation was available on how to extend Umbraco.
Also learning XSLT was, and is, time consuming.
As a .NET developer I have a good grasp on the concepts used, but it still took a while to wrap my head around Umbraco. For those who don't have this prior knowledge then it can be daunting.
Just my two cents worth based on my experience and the majority of the newbie comments requesting decent documentation.
Peter
On 15. April 2009 by Niels Hartvig
@Peter: There's more than six hours of great online learning videos available via umbraco.tv that goes through all the basics of settings up websites with Umbraco in over 25 videos. The lack of documentation is a myth.
On 01. June 2009 by Bo Møller
I like the idea that a CMS works out of the box. Why bother with lots of customizing and developing, if you can get a CMS that has lots of modules, and - if you like it - the ability to develop even more modules, should the existing ones not suit your needs.
In my world, a good cms makes it possible to build a website in half an hour, with lots of functionality, without touching Visual Studio or any other developer-environments.
Ofcourse, I'm a geek, so I like messing around in Visual Studio once in a while, but not everyone is like me.
// Bo Møller (winthermoller.dk)
On 02. June 2009 by Niels Hartvig
@Bo Møller:
If it's possible to build a website in half an hour with lots of functionality you're not building a website but adapting your needs to the spec of a system.
A great website doesn't rely on a system and is designed for the visitors who'll use the website, not designed for the system.
Completely module based CMS are dinosaurs and mostly suited for demos targeted people who really don't get the web.
Niels / umbraco
On 03. June 2009 by Bo Møller
Hi Niels.
I am the type of guy who likes to get a lot of work done, with the blink of an eye. Some people like to get deeply involved and technical. It's ok that you have a more technical, developer-like approach to building websites. A CMS should have room for both types of work.
Lots of people don't really care whether they are programming some advanced language, or how a database-connection is handled, they just want a webpage that suits their needs. If you can build such a webpage in half an hour - then why not?
If people are the more developer-kind-of-guys, there should be space for it. A descent CMS should have the possibility of using already invented solutions, plus a possibility for advanced systemdesign and integrating functionality.
Let's not discuss whether we should go one way or the other. Focus on that which brings value.
And by the way. I like Umbraco. It has potential.
Bo Møller
Lecturer at the University of Aarhus and TAM at Dynamicweb.
On 15. June 2009 by Jacob T. Nielsen
Hi Bo,
I am the type of guy who likes to deliver a product suited for the client’s needs.
This has nothing to do with getting technical. The only concern actually, is to deliver an end product that the client
truly wants, whatever that may be.
For example, what about the situation where you have some standard "module" and you want to extend the functionality by let's say 5 percent. You would have to discard the module entirely.
"I am the type of guy who likes to get a lot of work done, with the blink of an eye."
- Oh really, even if it means giving the clients a lesser product.
We are not comparing "Perfect product" vs. "Perfect product in ½ an hour", we are comparing shelf goods with extensive
limitations, with a product suited for the client’s needs.
I find it fairly irritating when the work I do is limited not by my own skills but by the
limitations of the system.
"It’s ok that you have a more technical, developer-like approach to building websites. A CMS should have room for both
types of work."
Here, of course, I could not agree more :)
"Lots of people don’t really care whether they are programming some advanced language, or how a database-connection is
handled, they just want a webpage that suits their needs. If you can build such a webpage in half an hour - then why
not?"
Yes if you can build such a webpage in half an hour then why not. But seriously you can't. You can build something but
that something is whatever the system dictates, not what suits their needs.
As an example, I would like you to explain to me what a gallery module would look like? I am sure that no matter what
you deliver my very first client will be inspired and ask for something extra. I would like meet those needs, listen to
their requests and deliver a less than mediocre product. There is a huge difference between a store bought 3 piece suit
and a custom made ensemble.
Professional clients get inspired and I don't want to tell them “No” all the time.
My 20 cents :)
Jacob T. Nielsen
On 24. June 2009 by Danny
>>The lack of documentation is a myth.
I agree, for a skilled .net developer the combination of the source and the books/videos on umbraco.org is enough to get started. I think that Umbraco has a small but very dedicated community, always willing to help. For me, it is a perfect piece of lego, with a well designed presentation layer!. I hope Umbraco keeps away loooong time from so-called modular cms'es.. What can happen (lord forbid) is dat it's being incorporated into ASP.NET 5.0 as ASP.MVC 5.0 the finally correct version.